Can we talk about the easy magic of meditation? If you don’t vibe with meditation, you might be thinking “Great. Meditation. AGAIN. When will people stop trying to force me to meditate?!?” Meditation is the practice people love to hate. And yet, out of everything we do and try and teach and share… Meditation is the base of the pyramid. It’s the launchpad for everything we teach in our psychedelic integration containers. It’s HOW we do literally everything in our own personal spiritual journeys. It is the way to stay connected to Source, and it is so NOT HARD! 

If spirituality were a pizza, meditation would be the New York thin crust. What are you going to do with all those toppings without the CRUST?!? There’s no delivery system. That’s just a gloppy mess. And spirituality doesn’t have to make you feel like you’re stuck with a pile of toppings and no crust.

I hated meditation because it asked me to sit with my overactive mind and watch it. It nudged me into presence. It led me into paying attention to and being in my body. Learning how to self-regulate with my breath. It showed me the way into a the role of being in charge of myself and my attention. It enabled me to put down all my distractions and be here now. It invited me to actually practice the presence I needed to BE how I like to be in the world. As my aligned self.

We challenge anyone who believes that you can’t meditate to give this episode of The Psychedelic Integration Podcast a listen and maybe let it be easy and give it another try! We’d love to hear how it goes, you can connect with us here: EMAIL US


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Read the Transcript

John 2:09
Hey, y’all, welcome to today’s episode. I’m John Sinclair, and we’re going to be talking today about the magic of meditation.

Sinclair 2:16
OOOH your favorite!  Oh, who doesn’t love meditation? A lot of you actually. I know this because you told me, “Well, I can’t meditate. I don’t know how to meditate.” So we’re gonna figure it out. Today we’re going to share why we love this practice so much. And why is it beneficial for integration? What is why should you care about this? So the first thing we want to start with is, well, part of the reason why I wanted to do this episode is because our friend Mckenzie asked a really great question, why is it beneficial? Why is meditation beneficial for integration with medicine and plant medicine? And she is recovering from shoulder surgery. And so we wanted to make this podcast for her to listen to while she’s working on getting better. And because we really like that question, why is it beneficial for integration? And to start out, the first thing to start with is like, Okay, well, what is meditation? Like? What are we talking about when we’re talking about this practice?

John 3:12
Yeah, that word gets like, it’s really kind of, like become this, like, catch all umbrella for a bunch of different things going on, right? Like, our word meditate, comes from Latin, and really means to, like, concentrate to like, ponder. It’s like the act of thinking. So you can hear it used like that, like, Well, I’m gonna meditate on this, I’m going to meditate on my problem and come to a solution, whatever. And that’s really just thinking with no outside input. And then there’s, you know, more of a Eastern understanding of meditation of like, really not engaging with thinking whatsoever, and like seeing what lies beyond the thinking, what is the experience, that of self when there is no thoughts? So people use this like this term, to mean those two ends of the spectrum and everything in between. So we just wanted to talk about what meditation means to us and offer our own definitions. So what does it mean to you?

Sinclair 4:28
When I think about my meditation practice for me, it’s a dedicated time, space, and energy and commitment that I’ve made to myself to my spiritual practice that I create to sit with myself and go inward and that means time that I put aside first thing in the morning, where I can be free. I can be free from thoughts I can be free from obligations I can be free from negative momentum from the day before, I can be free from responsibilities. It’s time to plug my batteries in and connect to source. And the reason I do it first thing in the morning is because that’s when I need that charge. I’ve recharged my physical body, I’ve rested and I’m ready to recharge my spiritual body.

John 5:21
Here they talk about like, you know, the expression like I got out on the wrong side of the bed this morning. Meditation first thing in the morning is like, I’m at least getting out of the bed on the right side every day.

Sinclair 5:34
Every day, there’s no wrong side of the bad. No. Well, you know, there’s no like, it doesn’t matter if the meditation doesn’t prevent you from having like a difficult time or having a difficult mood or whatever. But it is a space where you can let everything go. And just breathe. And I used to be terrified of this. I thought, oh my god, this is so difficult, right? But now it feels empowering. So what do you what? How do you think about your meditation practice?

John 6:12
Well, I agree with everything you said. And I also think it’s been like a tool for me to get a right relationship with my mind a good relationship with my mind. Like my, my arm, my hand is never like, against my will curling up into a fist and punching me in the face. You know, I have,

Sinclair 6:38
thank God,

John 6:39
I know, I have a good relationship with my body with my arm. It does what I asked it to do. And when it needs some rest, or whatever, I give it to it. But for the longest time, I didn’t have a good relationship with my mind, my mind would have a thought about something. And this thought would be like, conditioned by all my programming, my memories, my past experiences, and it would knee jerk react to whatever with like, I mean, sometimes that knee jerk reaction was fine and like didn’t need to work on it. Sometimes it was like, compassion, kindness and love and, but then other times, it was like anger and resentment and like hostility and aggression, you know, anxiety, depression, whatever, kind of autopilot, the mind brought to the situation. And that’s like the equivalent of the arm curling up and punching me in the face. You know, I’m like, I’m not enjoying being angry, I’m not enjoying being depressed. It’s not pleasant to be feeling hostile. So the meditation is a tool to like, get that same amount of control that I have over my hand over my mind. Like, I see you thought, Do I really want to engage with you? And it’s kind of like this one step process that does two things like one I’m, I’m not identifying as a thoughts because I’m observing them. So then I’m connecting to the part of myself that observes everything observes my mind. So I’m like, I’m like, de escalating the power the thoughts have over me and escalating the power of being the observer of being the consciousness. You put it connecting to source, plugging in my batteries is like the same thing. So it’s a really beautiful tool. That’s my favorite tool in the toolbox.

Sinclair 8:41
Yeah. So like this is? Well, I would find it difficult to really move in a forward momentum with my integration practice, if I did not meditate, and a lot of people will come to, you know, when they start working with us, they’re like, I don’t like meditation. I can’t do it. I’m not good at meditating. I can’t tell you how many times I’ve heard this. I’m not good at meditating. And I say, Well, what happens? Well, I can’t stop thinking. And I laugh because yeah, yeah, exactly. No, you won’t be able to stop thinking especially at the beginning. And that’s not the point. The point is not to stop the thoughts. The point is not okay, I’m gonna sit in lotus position and everything’s gonna go white. And I’m just going to, you know, check out and and nothing is gonna happen. I’m not gonna have a single thought. And you know, there are masters who sit in caves and maybe are able to reach that state with it. But we’re talking about people who live in a western world who are connected to devices who probably sleep at the device next to your foot next to your bed like we want to give you just carve out a little bit of space where you’re having some time with yourself every day. You have to do this every day. This is a this is In fact, if you want meditation to work, you’ve got to do it every day. And it’s a, it’s truly a pleasure to do it every day. It’s like, it stops being this thing that you have to do. And it starts being a thing that you get to do. And it’s a place where you are saying to yourself like I am, I was thinking about this, my, what I’m saying to myself every morning, when I sit down for this practice, or in my case, lay down because I like to meditate and lay down. And when I started meditating, lying down, it made it so much easier for me because I would get mad that I had to sit there. I am saying to myself, my relationship with my highest self, being plugged into spirit and being aligned, and starting my day in alignment is the most important thing. And that’s why I do it at the very beginning of the day. And

John 10:51
I need to tell myself that like all the time, yeah, all the time every day, because when you’re saying that now, it seems like so like what? Yeah, obviously, Duh, of course, right? But also, if I skip doing that every day, then I get wrapped up in. Okay, I go to the gym, and whatever’s going on at the gyms, I overheard some conversation I see on the news, this, then my thoughts are wrapped up in that. And then I go to work, and then my thoughts are wrapped up in that. And then there’s some drama with this and that, or, or maybe it’s all fun stuff. And I’m like getting caught up in painting or whatever. But I can forget, because I get so caught up in whatever it is that like, oh, yeah, I have this relationship with source with my high self on cultivating that. And today that looks like this that looks like not feeding this energy, but feeding this energy. It looks like you know, changing this habit, it looks like this message I got from the plant medicine. And to put the message from the plant medicine into practice. For me, it’s been really important to remind myself of the message every day, whatever that message is at the time. And then to just like, like you said, carve out a time where I’m like, rededicating myself, because a lifelong path takes constantly dedication, you’re not just going to dedicate yourself to it once and like coast on that for the rest of your life.

Sinclair 12:28
It reminds me of this idea that like, you know, you’ve heard people say, Oh, wish life came with an instruction manual. You know, I wish, I wish, I wish I knew how to do my life. I wish I knew what my purpose was I wish I you know, had this sense of meaning. And I agree, I believe that we do have those things, I think we come into the world with intuition, with connection to Source to joy to play. I mean, if you look at a child, the child is connected to source, they are having fun, and they are loving it. And they don’t care about, you know, whatever adult things that we have decided that we have to care about. And I bring up childhood because I think it’s child hood is a good example of how we are meant to be in the world, how we are meant to feel in the world, which is light and free and joyful and having fun and playful. And creating a space with meditation enables you to tap back into that. And that intuition is always there. You have a guidance system, and you have access to it. And the way that you can access it is through meditation. There’s this great.

John 13:46
I don’t know if that Buddha actually said it, but it’s always like attributed to the Buddha. Yeah, exactly. It says something like someone asked the Buddha, what did you gain from meditation. He was like, I haven’t gained anything. But I lost the anger and resentment and fear and judgment. And all those things that you’re talking about, like the joyful, childlike quality that we would all like a little more in our lives of is like the that’s what’s left over. When we stop feeding those things. They’re not really it’s not really anything we have to cultivate or like strive to be that is what we are and when we let go of our habits of being angry or depressed or anxious, or whatever your brand of disconnection is, that is the natural consequence. That’s what’s leftover. And that’s what flows from source to us all the time.

Sinclair 14:41
Yeah, it’s like, you know, we think of the mind as this creation hub where everything is everything is being manufactured in the mind. But what’s really true about the mind is that it’s a receiver. And understanding that your mind is a receiver a sort of a game changer. or like, you know, if you follow somebody like Joe Dispenza, who’s always talking about like tapping into quantum, the quantum space. And you know, Abraham Hicks calls it, the vortex, and all of these different spiritual teachers are talking, they’re saying the same thing, they’re just say it in different words, but that there’s this place where you are fully connected to all that is. And in that place, anything is possible you can create anything you can be you can do, you can have anything. And that is the place where you can go, when you meditate, you can start to step back from your identity from the labels from the compartments that you’ve put yourself in and that your ego is identifying with, and you start to identify with this big, big consciousness that has everything. And the mind is the physical receiver of that consciousness. And to me, that is just like the most magical thing I could ever think of that does human incarnation that I have has this organ that can receive consciousness is so cool. Like, I think it’s so exciting. And for me, meditation has been this really beautiful exploration of not only learning how to calm myself, how to check into my body, how to direct my thoughts, get space, or my thoughts, practice non attachment from my thoughts, but it’s also enabled me to open myself to creation, to creativity to deliberate creation. And I can’t think of any other tool that is like more foundational than meditation.

John 16:46
When I first worked with Ayahuasca, I purged up a whole mess of stuff. And at that time, I was like, very clear what I was purging up. Like, this is like, unhealthy self image I’m feeling and then I would purge it, I’d be like, That feels better to be not having that. And a lot of a lot of the things I purge were some variation on anger. And I remember like, one particular ceremony, I think, my second ceremony, and I was purging and purging and purging, purging. And then the medicine told me, like, this is what it feels like to not have any anger in your system. Your there’s no leftover anger right now, it’s all out. And now it’s up to you, whether you put it back in or not. And the meditation is the way that I choose whether I’m putting it in or not. I it’s very easy, like, you know, when someone especially once, when we’re justified in our anger, right, someone does something unjust to us. It’s like, someone cuts us off or someone, whatever, right? There’s plenty of like, reasons where we could give ourselves legitimate reason to be angry. But being angry doesn’t feel good. It’s like unpleasant, it’s disconnected from this beautiful place of magical whole creation you’re just talking about. And meditation gives me the eyes to see that anger coming to not be swept up in the anger. And then immediately into a hamster wheel of thinking angry thoughts, and expressing angry words and holding an angry vibration. It gives me the eyes to see like, okay, that just happened. I’m getting angry. But let me take a minute, and breathe, and let this anger flow through me and out of me, and I don’t have to engage with it. While it’s doing that. What keeps the anger sticking around is my engagement with it, my feeding the angry thoughts, saying the angry words holding the angry vibration in my body, whatever it is. But that anger can pass through and out without me really getting wrapped up in it in a much, much shorter amount of time. So it’s that the meditation for me has been like such a tool to like, give me a choice. In do I want to engage in this new habit that the plants illuminated me about? Or do I want to continue 25 years of habituation and the develop developing those eyes is, for me, totally worth sitting quietly. Upright every morning for 10 to 20 minutes.

Sinclair 19:58
It becomes the way that it’s beneficial for your integration is that it’s a bridge. It’s like a magical bridge that comes between the mystical experience with the medicine and your regular life. Because you will have to go back to your regular life, I hate to tell you that. But the even, you know, even if you work with medicine regularly, even if you are, you know, microdosing or whatever way that you’re extending the magic, because it does feel magical, the mystical experience does glow out into, you know, sometimes people call it a pink cloud, where you’re just so excited because you have this new awareness, but without some kind of bridge when you get to your regular life,

John 20:47
and that that regular life could be even working at a retreat center. Yeah. Life will show up there.

Sinclair 20:52
Yeah, regular life is not necessarily like, it could be any, it’s anywhere. It’s the it’s the real ceremony, that’s the day to day, how are you behaving with your family? How are you in, you know, interacting with people at work that you don’t like? How are you interacting with people you don’t like at all anymore? How are you dealing with people that you have complex in? Are you are you attracting conflicts into your life, like, the the work is in is in real life, right? And the medicine is, is the tool that like, sort of re plugs us in and you get that jolt of like, Oh, yes, clarity, awareness, connection, love, unconditional love, I love myself, I love everyone, like everything is are already working out for me in my favor all the time. It’s so easy to feel that when you’ve had medicine, and then going back into your life, that a lot of people, a lot of our clients get this, like, they have the breakthrough in the ceremony or the retreat. And then they’re like, I’m gonna lose this. Like, I don’t know how to keep it, how do I keep and then and then like the fear of, you know, all your problems coming back? What happens? brings your problems back. And so the meditation is the tool to start diverting the river that you have going down, you know, you have it going on, it’s going one way, and it’s going one way. And the meditation is like, what if you stop engaging without thought? What if that thought isn’t true? What if you could step even step above that. One visualization I like to do in my meditation is I imagine that I’m in a maze. And the thoughts are the maze. Like if I’m going after a thought, I’m walking around in the maze. But when I remind myself that I’m in a maze, and the thoughts are taking me through the maze, and I can just connect with like, oh, right, I’m in a maze, I don’t have to follow any of these thoughts, I like return to the center of the maze, and like rise above it, and I can see all the thoughts below, just going off in all these different directions. And I think, I don’t really feel like going through this maze today. Like, I don’t really feel, it doesn’t feel it’s not serving me to run around in this maze, because that’s what it is like our mind is just will chase us, you know, take us on a wild goose chase, a lot of times, that’s not necessary. It’s, you don’t need to follow every thought that you have and obsess about it or, you know, create stories, as a lot of what we do is like, create stories about this person feels this way. And I’m going to invent a whole narrative about how this is going. And you’re and before you know it, you’re like having imaginary conversations with people that you haven’t even had, and you’re, you know, it’s like, you’re creating a bunch of stuff that doesn’t exist. I used to do

John 23:49
that stuff. So automatically, and so, like, totally immersed in it. That if I heard you say that, that that’s what I was doing. I don’t think it would have even registered that I was doing. I would like, I would have been like, No, I’m just thinking about the situation. You know, that having that space to be like, I I’m making up a story right now, to see it for what it is, is like to see the forest from the trees. It’s like, it’s such a gift. And how, okay, so does it feel like that when you first start meditating? No.

Sinclair 24:34
Feels annoying.

John 24:36
Yeah, I think a lot of people will. I know, because this was the way for you. This was the way for me. And for a lot of people we work with it’s the same thing. They’re like, Well, I must not be doing the meditation, right? Because I’m not getting any of that. I’m sitting here, and I’m like, just in a jumbled mess of thoughts. So what do you say to this person who’s like starting off in that place? Well,

Sinclair 25:00
Well, I like to let it be easy. So I would tell them, let it be easy. So there’s a few different things that you can do when you’re getting started. And the first one is to make a commitment to keep doing it. Because the process that you’re describing getting jumbled up in a maze of thoughts, that is meditation, you are meditating, when you sit for five minutes, and you think the whole time and you don’t get any relief from the thinking, whatever that is meditation, you are doing it. And when you tell yourself, well, I can’t meditate, I’m not good at it. That’s bullshit. That is not real. Everybody can meditate. And that’s what it looks like at first. And in order to get the benefits from it, you have to keep doing it. And my advice is to start slow to start with a time that feels reasonable that you can commit to for a week for two weeks, you know, if you can sit with yourself for two minutes a day, start there. And when you’ve done that, for seven days, add a minute, like you don’t need to start out doing 30 minutes with Sandler meditation. What would you add to that?

John 26:12
Well, I agree with you. And I like whatever version of meditation is like it’s being present, and being aware. So I think I mean, for myself, sitting quietly, in an upright position, with only my thoughts and sounds to be what I’m aware of, has been like, really beneficial, but I don’t think I could have started there either. It’s like,

Sinclair 26:44
how long have you been meditating? 

John 26:54
seven years.

Sinclair 26:56
Okay. So you’ve been doing this for a long time longer than me? Yeah. Yeah.

John 27:01
So, but it’s something right. It’s like something to be aware of. And for me, right now, the being aware of my thoughts has been really what’s was yielding good results. But that wouldn’t have been, I wasn’t able to do that. At the beginning. I needed like, a walking meditation. So I was aware of like, something more stimulating than my thoughts, like physical sensations on my feet. Like, the sights I was seeing as I was walking the sounds like all of that was, like, easier to be present for. And then, when I started sitting, it was like, guided meditations. And there was someone else’s voice that wasn’t mine, to be aware of. So I was being present with what they were saying. And then, after a while, there wasn’t any like timetable. I wasn’t like, Well, I’m gonna do this for a month, or I’m gonna do this for two months. I like, was listening to someone and then, you know, it’s like, I’m not engaged with this isn’t doing it for me anymore. Maybe I’ll try just music. And then it was just music for a while. And then I was like this, musics not doing it for me. And then I was like, well, maybe I’ll say some mantras. So I was like, engaging in the mantra to quiet my mind. And then after a while, I still do mantra, sometimes.

Sinclair 28:16
I do love a good mantra. Yeah, they’re nice. Because you can use a mala. And I really like malas, too.

John 28:22
When they for me, they’re like, an active meditation where I’m like, I want to concentrate on this one thought, Okay. Like, I’ve been doing this mantra at the end of my meditations recently, where it’s like, I breathe through all my chakras, I hold my breath, concentrate energy, and then I breathe out and into my heart. And I say, I love myself, I honor myself, I value myself, I trust myself, I respect myself, I nurture myself. So that’s like, for me, that’s like a nice thing to meditate on to say over and over and over. And this is the active meditation. And then the sitting quietly is a passive meditation where I’m in receiving mode, where I’m plugging my plug in my cable and just source right to like, reconnect. But the whole point is to say that like, maybe something more active is a good place to start something that’s like, fun, doesn’t feel like a chore and is more engaging, because it’s easier to be present. When there’s like, more moving bits. You know,

Sinclair 29:36
I spent a lot of time doing guided meditations for the first probably three or four years that I meditated. I would do silent meditation in like yoga classes, I would go to meditation, like events. And because of the group space, I was really able to like yeah, be there with other people. But as far as having a silent meditation practice on my own All this before I started working with medicine, I couldn’t hold it like I couldn’t. I didn’t like it at the time, like it felt like, I felt the same way a lot of people feel that I couldn’t stop thinking. And I didn’t know then that that wasn’t the point. I thought the point of it was like, you have to clear your mind. And I had a bad perfectionism problem back then. So I was really hard on myself. And I think that’s something that meditation has really softened in me is going from like, not only can I not stop  thinking, but I’m going to be really shitty to myself about like, “Oh, you’re so stupid. You can’t meditate. Of course, you’re like never gonna get this right.” 

There must be something wrong with me like I’m not spiritual, you know, all this all this like mean stuff that I would say to myself because my overstimulated mind that has grown up, you know, with video games and cell phones and television and radio and like, the Internet and computers has a hard time calming down. I wonder why, could you imagine why we can’t just sit out in nature and listen to birds? because our brains are wired, not to be able to do that. And so it’s normal, like to come up to the struggles. And so I did a lot of guided meditation, I used some different apps. Headspace was my favorite one for like, starting to teach me how to meditate silently. Because it gave me a lot. It has a really good structure. It’s very simple. I liked the voice of the Creator, I can’t remember his name off the top of my head. But it’s teaches you different techniques like noting, it helps you to like identify, Oh, was that a thought or a feeling mine?  I never have feelings. When I’m meditating. I’m always thinking it’s like 100% thing. I’m hardly ever having some feeling that I’m not thinking about it. If I’m having a feeling I’m having a thought about it. So that was really helpful to kind of understand, like, oh, actually don’t get interrupted with feelings. I’m getting interrupted with thinking and just starting to learn how to be like, they would tell you to brush the thought away with a feather. Like, that’s the way that you know, and bring your best self back with. And I’m like, Oh, that’s so soft. It’s so much different than like, you moron. Why are you doing it like this. And so. 

So starting out with some of those kinds of apps, like Insight Timer is another really great one, if especially if you want to meditate on something, if you’re struggling with something, they have amazing meditations for everything, like anything, if you’re feeling like, oh, I need to forgive someone, I need to forgive myself, I need to I want to think you know, I want to meditate on self love, I want to, and I like that for the getting you into the habit, the practice. So those are good. If you’re like, Okay, I want to make a commitment to myself to do this every day. Those are great to start with as well. Because you might start getting excited about what you’re listening to, you know, like, what am I going to sit with today. And you can learn so much from different teachers like on, you know, mantras, and all these different ways that you can really engage with it and create this learning and connection experience.

John 33:24
Yeah, I think it’s, it’s normal is really like the main point that we want to get across is that like, when you start, I think, I feel like everyone has that idea of like, well, my thoughts, I shouldn’t do this. And my thoughts should so completely subside, and I should float off into the white light, surrounded by love. And that will just be that. And I’m sure people do that. And I would imagine it takes a really long time and huge commitment to get to that place. And there’s many, many steps on this journey of like, returning to source being like the, the one that’s being expressed at all times in our lives, there’s lots of like realizations along the way. There’s lots of steps along the path. And making these little steps gaining some space between our thoughts is like a gradual process. So at the beginning of the process, it may look like constant thinking and I could really relate to what you were talking about, about like, trying to, it’s like I was trying to whip my mind into quietude with my mind. What kind of nonsense but that’s what I was trying, you know, like angrily being like Jesus Christ. Focus, like,

Sinclair 34:51
right like you’re gonna drill sergeant yourself into

John 34:54
my mind is not going to subdue my mind with anger. Sure. Okay, great. But anyway, Is it wood, it started off like that where like it was constantly thinking constantly thinking, constantly thinking, no space, no space, no space. And then there was a little space, and then no space, no space, no space. And overall, it hasn’t been a very linear process. But the overall trend, when I look at the habit of meditation, the practice of meditation that I’ve had is, the space between my thoughts has increased, the likelihood of me getting swept away by my thought has decreased the identification with my higher self source, whatever’s behind the thoughts has increased. And, like the, the damaging effect of my thoughts is really decreased. So like, the overall effect has been good. And I think if I would have given up after a week, or a month or two months, or even, I mean, even really, five years or whatever, like, I’m, it’s not a habit I want to give up on because the more I do it, the the more benefits I see, the more I let go of stuff that’s no longer serving me leaving room for all the good, that is waiting for me behind that.

Sinclair 36:29
It’s a beautiful tool. And even if all you get out of it is just not resisting, like becoming aware, acceptance, accepting where you are in the moment, and allowing yourself to like put everything down and just be in that space, your life will change. And we are talking so much about this, we talked about this in literally every episode, I feel like we’re always talking about meditation. And we finally want to make an episode about it. Because it’s that important. And it’s the cornerstone, the foundation, it’s the brick, it’s like the base of the pyramid. If you want to ascend in yourself, you have to have a spiritual connection with yourself. And if you’re not setting aside time to plug in, where else you’re gonna get that

John 37:22
people are like, some people are like, “Well, can I do all this other stuff and just not do meditation?” And my answer is like, I’ve never met any spiritual teacher that I really respect that doesn’t meditate. And I don’t know, if I could not do it without meditating. So is it possible? I mean, maybe, but like, why do you want to roll the dice?

Sinclair 37:44
with those odds? Yeah, I mean, I think it just makes it hard. You know, I think you have to work a lot harder. So you were just sharing about what, like you get out of meditating. For me, it’s this super safe, loving, beautiful space where I can go anytime that I need to just be to just be present, to just be in my body to just breathe. I felt like meditation helped me fall in love with breathing. I love breathing. And like, it’s funny to say that but like, shouldn’t we all be in love with breathing, breathing is so important to Earth. I mean, it’s crucial. Like if we don’t breathe, we don’t live. And just the reciprocity of breathing is so beautiful. The in and out the balance, the harmony, that breath represents is all this beautiful dance that I’ve really come to understand through meditation and how important breath is is, how calming it is, how powerful it is to bring you into the present moment and how you have control to choose to feel good in your body. Even if you’re in pain, even if you have anxiety, even if you feel depressed, even if insert you know whatever thing here the meditation is the is the portal, it’s the portal to peace. It’s the portal to calm. It’s the portal to everything that you want in your life. Because if you if you are checking in and like tuning in, tapping in turning yourself on, you are getting into the space where you can create and you can attract and you can like really start to manifest the thing the things that you want in your life. And for me meditation has also empowered me to feel so happy in my in my current moment is created gratitude and like this overwhelming feeling of wellness and tranquil tranquility and just well being and joy in in every day and just noticing all the little things in my life that are so beautiful. All, and not always being in the state of future focused or past focus, like I don’t have this I wish things are like they used to be, you know, this like state where we don’t exist in the present moment. And meditation is the place where I go. When I’m here.

John 40:17
Like the way you said that, for me. I think of it like, like all everything you were talking about is like, it’s so clearly just a choice on what vibration we pick for ourselves. Do we want to pick a nice vibration? Or do we want to pick a shitty vibration? One that we’ve been down that road? We know where it leads? Do we want good things for our lives? Do we want bad things for our lives? Do we want health? Do we want sickness? All of these things are just choices that we make over and over the compound. And for me, the meditation is the ability to make that choice. It’s like that choice isn’t being made on autopilot anymore. That choice isn’t being made by programming, or my past experiences or my memory of who I think I am. It’s being made in the present moment with awareness with consciousness. And meditation is how I’m able to do that.

Sinclair 41:15
Beautiful. Well, I actually wanted to ask you, you know, a couple of episodes, we did an episode where John was sharing about feeling stuck in a process while he was he was going through a process and he was not feeling okay, we did an episode. It’s not, it’s okay. Not to be okay. And can you share that wasn’t that long ago? This was like, two or three weeks ago? Yeah, suddenly, can you share about how meditation helped you shift that? Well,

John 41:47
it’s literally the only thing I did to and I didn’t even try to do anything. I was like, This is what’s going on with me right now. I’m, I was feeling anxious. And this like, pit in my chest and worry and fear about nothing in particular. And I didn’t try to like, do anything about it. I just said, Okay, well, this is what it is right now. And I sat with it. And it hasn’t been like that recently. I don’t know when it stopped being like that. And when I started to feel better, but I have and nothing’s no outside circumstances have changed. My vibration has changed. And this is the choice I was just talking about. Like before, that anxiety would come up. That fear would come up the pit, my chest would come up and I would engage with it. So I’ve seen this pattern, I engage with it. It persists I engage with it persists, it deepens, it gets worse at that. I keep trying to solve things. And I just drive myself crazy, trying to solve things, creating more anxiety and worry for myself. And this time, I was like, You know what? I don’t want to do that, again, because it hasn’t worked in the past. It’s only made things worse. So I just sat there with it, and meditated. And sure enough it past. In fact,

Sinclair 43:20
it was fast, too.

John 43:21
Yeah it was very fast. That’s cool. I was like gearing myself up for months of feeling like that, because that’s how it’s been in the past.

Sinclair 43:28
Yeah. But it’s funny, you took a different approach you like turned into it, instead of resisting it or just like, and this was what I have been talking about in previous episodes where I’ve said, like, in order to solve the problem, you have to really get immersed in the problem. And that’s kind of just part of the solution. The solution isn’t just go into the problem and sit at the bottom of the well and wait to die. Like, the solution is like, Okay, I have this problem. And instead of trying to push it away, and go around it and put it in a package and climb over it and go underneath it or whatever, I’m gonna walk right into it, and I’m gonna let it Envelop me, and I’m gonna keep going on my merry way. Because I don’t want to sit inside this problem. And putting all my attention on a problem that isn’t moving is not a place where my attention is, is like bringing good outcomes right now. Like if you’re stuck in something continuing to put all your attention on it and be like, I have to solve this problem.

John 44:26
I’m stuck, I’m stuck.

Sinclair 44:28
I’m stuck and it doesn’t solve through action. It falls through. Okay, here we are. Moving on, I’m gonna put my attention somewhere else. And you can’t do that unless you’re walking through the problem. You know, like, accepting that it’s there inviting it in welcoming it and be like, What are you here to teach me? What are you here to teach me? Why is this exactly what I need right now?

John 44:51
And sometimes, it’s like nothing but a perspective shift. Like in my case, in this particular situation. I needed a perspective shift I needed to feel some backlog of feelings it felt like but I didn’t need to take really any action. And then other times it is like going to the problem. And then like, when I’m in there and like, Oh, I really need to, like do something about this. So it’s not a one size fits all answer, it’s like each problem is gonna have its own thing to teach you once you get in there.

Sinclair 45:23
Well, and the resistance part is such a big deal with like, the more we resist, the more whatever thing we don’t like is going to continue. And meditation is a really good tool to overcome resistance, and to surrender and learn all of these skills that you can use when you’re working with medicine and ceremony. Because you will be confronted with stuff that’s very uncomfortable and difficult to look at. And if you have a meditation practice, already, before you even go into the experience, or if you develop one, after you’ve had the experience, and you have another experience, your toolkit, it’s like going into the, into the experience, you know, with nothing versus having a psychedelic toolbox of Oh, I know how to handle this. Because I meditate, I know how to sit with this. Because I meditate, I know how to release into this experience, because I meditate and I have control over my breath. And that is all you have.

John 46:21
I kind of went the opposite route, like I had experience with the plants. I was like, oh my god, I gotta figure out a tool to deal with this. So I’m like starting to practice all these things. So I just saw at the beginning stage, it was like, just so when I’m with the medicine, then I’ll have a tool. And then this is how like naive I was at the beginning. And then at some point, it dawned on me like, Oh, my God, I can use  this tool in the rest of my life.

Sinclair 46:46
Yeah, I mean, that’s part of why we teach it is because it’s good for both. If you’d like medicine, which we really like it, we like it’s helpful. And, you know, a regular meditation practice, when you’ve been drinking Ayahuasca doesn’t really seem that difficult. You’re just like, oh, there’s not a DMT onslaught of psychedelic ancestors trying to talk to me right now. And I’m just breathing and you know, not being crushed by, you know, a wave of diamonds or whatever is happening. Like, wow, this is easy. And all of this stuff works together. Like that’s what John was talking about, about the holistic approach, you know, your body and your mind and your spirit and your emotions are all part of you. You are a whole system. And whatever tools are working for you use them, it’s not going to just be one thing, it’s going to be a whole bunch of different things. It’s going to be meditation, it’s going to be moving around, it’s going to be connecting with people, it’s going to be finding work that you like, like making, yeah, making art creating, like, for me, a big part of my spiritual path is this is doing the work with mystical heart Collective is this business. It’s a huge part of my spiritual path. I love it. And whatever that is for you. Can you bring meditation into it, if you can, it’s going to all the rest of it will even get better. So thank you so much for listening to this great episode sending once and love to Mackenzie, her healing of her shoulder. And she’s our soul sister. So we were thinking about her. And just want to remind you that we have some stuff going on. Oh, we are. Well, if you’ve been listening to this podcast, and you’re interested in working with us, you can connect and find out how to do that on our website and mystical heart collective.com. We are starting a group our first group cohort, rising aligned family is our group program. It’s a six month container, where we will meet with you one on one twice a month and intergroup also once a month, and we’re going on a retreat an 11 day Ayahuasca in San Pedro retreat together in Ecuador. So it’s a big process. It’s a big, big container. And it’s super exciting to have a community where you get to do all of this work not only with the support of yourself and each other, but with the support of your fearless medicine guides, that’s us. And you know, in a place that we feel really safe when we love and where we do our own work. So if you are interested in joining risin line family, you can find out more about it. Going to mystical heart collective.com forward slash retreats and our one to one private program rising the line is open as well. You can start anytime. And yeah, connect with us work with us. We would love to be that support system to help you really lean into your transformation.

John 49:50
So thanks for joining us today

Sinclair 49:53
Happy meditating. See you next time. Peac




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