the truth about healing with psychedelics

This week on The Psychedelic Integration Podcast, we’re having a real honest talk about the truth about healing with psychedelics. After taking six weeks off to relocate our lives and work to Wimberley, Texas, just outside Austin, we’re back and excited to take a deep dive into what “healing with psychedelics” actually means. 

We’re so used to this idea of go see a doctor, get (maybe?) a diagnosis, probably for sure get some pharma prescribed, and snip snap, your symptoms are handled. For a lot of people, this so-called healthcare system is starting to feel more like a cold, mechanical assembly line where no one is listening to you, you’re spending shitloads of money, and you’re not getting better. More and more folks are sick and tired of feeling sick and tired with no real cure, and escalating pain, suffering, and medical bills.

How is the conventional Western healthcare system failing us? Why is healing with psychedelics is becoming a lifesaving healing modality for so many people who have been left behind and left in pain by the endless cycle of doctors, diagnoses, treatment plans, drugs, and symptom management? What does it mean to truly walk the path of spiritual growth and transformation with plant medicines as your guide? 

We’ll answer these questions and so much more on this juicy episode. 


Sinclair 0:02
Hey everyone. Welcome to our new episode The truth about healing with psychedelics. It has been a minute since we have done an episode we have well,

John 0:11
we moved to Wimberley, Texas, which is right outside of Austin. And now we’re getting everything set up and getting adjusted. So we took some time away from making podcasts. But everything’s adjusted. And we’re back. Yeah, we’re back. So if you’re in the Austin or Wimberley area, we hope to run into you soon. Be on the lookout for some cacao ceremonies. And yeah, maybe some other in person,

Sinclair 0:39
community building event. Exactly. So today, we want to talk to you about the truth about healing with psychedelics. And the first step in this process is talking about what do we mean by healing with psychedelics? We’ve said this a lot. We have a, we’ve talked about this a lot for you know, the last couple of years trying to get connected to what does this mean this healing? So what does it mean? So

John 1:03
often when we, when we use these words? Well, whatever words we use, right, the words are symbols, so they have to be translated and understood by each person that is hearing them. So when we use the words healing and psychedelics, this conjures up a meaning for each individual person. And what we found out is that, well, when we say healing with psychedelics, we’re often speaking a different language than what people we’re working with are speaking. So when people think of healing, what what are they generally thinking of like, what does the general public think of when they think of healing?

Sinclair 1:42
Well, I think the Western understanding of healing is really tied up into the medical and healthcare system. So if you think about healing, then you’re thinking about sickness and illness and symptoms. And healing is something that people seek out because they’re suffering, they want to plug up and stop the symptoms to take something that makes them feel better. And that’s sort of what we’ve been conditioned into in our health care system, treating symptoms, managing symptoms, alleviating symptoms, and a lot of that with, you know, pharmaceutical treatment plans. So the healing that most of us are familiar with, that we kind of get indoctrinated into, is okay. If I’m going to get healing, I have to go to an expert or a doctor, and they need to give me a diagnosis, and then they need to give me a drug. And that kind of thinking about it is really not the way that we’re talking about it.

John 2:48
So, okay, so that’s healing. And then we have the word psychedelics, which I think, Well, like I was talking to some people in town, who while I was talking to some people in town the other day, and they were asking what I do, and I was explaining it to them, and the well they said, like psychedelics like, like trippy art from the 60s. Well, okay, so I’m understanding that when the word psychedelic, gets tossed around, it’s conjuring up images of like, Woodstock and like tie dye in San Francisco and the Grateful Dead. Like, that’s not what we mean by this at all. So this word is actually it’s such a great word to describe these medicines and these plants. So it comes from two Greek root words, psyche, which, like when we think of psyche today, we kind of think of, we think of the mind, but to the Greeks, psyche really meant the soul or our equivalent of the soul. And Delic is I forget what exact word it is from, but that part of that word means to reveal. So psychedelic means to, like reveal our soul. So when we’re talking about the plants or these medicines, that’s what we’re talking about is something that helps to reveal our soul to us. And what do we mean when we say, healing with them? So we’re not talking about plugging up symptoms, we’re not talking about stopping just the the end result, right, like the symptoms or the symptoms are a effect of a cause. They are like, downstream from the source of all these things, whatever it is. So when we’re talking about healing, we’re talking about making an adjustment somewhere upstream. So downstream, the symptoms naturally go away as a result of correcting where the source of this is coming from. And while we understand all this stuff to happen, not isolated, right. And so there’s nothing that’s happening in our physical world that’s isolated from our emotional world, our mental world and our spiritual world. So when we talk about healing, we’re talking about addressing the root causes of these things in these four spheres.

Sinclair 5:24
Yeah, so this is different than the way that most of us have come to understand healing, when you shift into working with sacred plants and plant medicine in spiritual capacity, you’re shifting your definition of this idea of healing. In the medical world, healing is very non participatory, people are doing things to you, you’re taking something and waiting for it to work, there’s no participation other than, like compliance with, you know, whatever the doctor tells you. But in plant medicine, you are required to participate in your healing, you’re required to, like John said, your soul is being revealed to you. And so you’re kind of, it’s a must, if you want to get the results out of this to look at what is being shipped, like, look at what’s being revealed, and not just look at it, go like, lean into it, figure out what like, Okay, I have anxiety. You know, if you go to a doctor, they’re gonna give you antidepressants or anti anxiety medicine and send you on your way. And they’d like, yeah, that’s it. Now this person isn’t, isn’t anxious. But the reason that you’re anxious has nothing to do with these, you know, they’re telling us that while you’re anxious, because there’s some chemical imbalance in your brain, we do not believe that we believe that you’re anxious because there is a spiritual cause in your consciousness that is manifesting as anxiety. And that is a very different animal than, you know, there’s some chemical process in my brain that’s not working

John 7:03
well. There’s like a lot of agreements and understandings that we onboard to have this standard system work. So some of these things, and they’re, they’re very much unsaid unspoken, and, but when you shine a light on them, like when, well, I’m going to tell you what one of them is, and you’ll see that this does pervade all of our Western medical paradigm. And one of them is that consciousness, our mind, our non physical part of us is a byproduct of our mind. So with that understanding, like the chemical imbalance is the cause. And the depression is the effect. And that is kind of understood that we’re the anxiety, right? The there’s some chemical, there’s some GABA receptors that are doing whatever they’re doing, and then it’s not, and then therefore, you are upset, you’re depressed, you’re anxious, whatever it is. And really, we disagree with this, we’ve found and come to realize through our work with the plants that it really goes the other way, everything is consciousness first. And that is its primary sphere, right. And another word for consciousness is spirit. So this spiritual realm, the spiritual being that we are, it really is our primary place. And then wherever, that spirit, that vibration, that energy, whatever that vibration is being held that trickles down, and it feeds into our mind, and our mind develops understandings, beliefs, perspectives, from that vibration, which then feed down into our emotions and our emotions. Really, our responses to our world based on our understandings, and then finally, after collecting our vibration, our beliefs, our thought patterns, or stories about life, our perspectives, and they get this emotional charge, then, and only then do they come into this physical existence. And if there is, well disease in those other three realms, then the effect of that is that the serotonin is out of balance, or the GABA receptors are in overdrive or whatever. It’s the opposite. So the paradigm that we’ve come to understand is that yeah, the chemical imbalance is an effect of the cause that happens in our non physical part. So when we start to understand that we can start to see like, Well, where do we want to do the healing? Where do we want to take a pattern of being existence understand thing, whatever and correct it and put it into a new pattern that’s more beneficial and more healthy for us.

Sinclair 10:56
So it’s really no wonder that people are starting to look outside of the traditional health care system for help. Because we are suffering, we are feeling like something is wrong. And a lot of times, you know, if you go to a doctor, they’re not really listening to you. This isn’t every doctor, obviously. But a lot of medical doctors are working in a system that’s broken. And therefore, they’re, you know, they’re doing their job, the way that they’ve been taught and the way that they’re required to do it for you know, their insurance, or the hospital or whatever thing and it’s this like for profit system that really doesn’t care about helping people truly heal. What it cares about is money, because that’s what that’s what for profit systems care about is making profits for their shareholders. It’s like their main, it’s like in their bylaws that they have to do whatever makes the most money. And whatever makes the most money is not getting people healthy. It’s keeping them sick on lots of pharmaceutical drugs. And a lot of people are finding themselves at their wit’s end, they’re having chronic pain, chronic illness, depression, anxiety, all of these things, and they have gone to the very end of the road, they’ve seen dozens of doctors, dozens of specialists, they’ve taken all the drugs and they’re like, I still feel like shit, what am I supposed to do. And here’s where the plants come in, and the plants, the plants do not have an agenda. The plant medicine is its agenda is I am an ancient consciousness, and I want to share my wisdom with you. I would like to help you be happier, more purpose filled, meaning filled, light filled human, because that’s your true nature. And maybe it has an agenda of like, plant more of me. Share me share my share what you learn from me with your people. Because y’all need help. And we’re here to help. And that’s, that’s how I understand the consciousness of the plants is as these like ancient ancient healers, ancient consciousness, ancient teachers, the wisdom that they contain is infinite and old and old, as old as everything. And it’s a portal for us to see just a small sliver of that. And it defies anything that we have set up here. That’s not to say that, you know, the medical system is bad and you shouldn’t use it. We’re not We’re not saying that there are there’s a time and a place for Western medicine. Like if you’re in a car crash, and you’re bleeding, that broken bones, whatever thing you’re going to the emergency room, no, John has a great story about this, like,

John 13:49
Well, I heard from someone that if you get bit by a snake, you go to the doctor to make sure that you don’t die from the snake bite. And then afterwards you go to the plants you go to the shaman to figure out why you got bit by the snake in the first place. And this is really like where the plants and the psychedelics can help us and what healing looks like with them. You know, Western medicine is this like, diagnose and treat some sort of illness, disease, whatever. And the psychedelics don’t do that. What they do is they help us to reconnect to our soul to our spirit, a part of us that is been downplayed and flat out like really, it pervades our culture that this is a this is none not real, that this is like a part of archaic thinking that our ancestors who were superstitious just didn’t know any better. So they that’s what they believe that we have these souls and spirits and Whatever. And so there’s this whole part of ourselves the main part of ourselves that we deny its existence. So the plants, the psychedelics help us reconnect to that part of ourselves. And just making that connection helps to set us into a more harmonious pattern of existence. Just making that connection helps us to see things more clearly, just making that connection allows us the safety, security and the connection to our divinity to feel emotions that we’re afraid of. And all of those things start to set the effects, they’re the final manifestation of all those other three parts of us our physical body, they start to put those in order. So our physical body naturally starts to fall in order. So it’s not diagnosing and treating illness and disease in the physical sense. But it’s really helping us connect to our spirit where, when your spirits are high, anything is possible in this realm of the nonphysical, there is no limits. And when we connect to that part of ourselves, we can really connect to a part of ourselves that is bigger than depression, bigger than anxiety, bigger than trauma, bigger than anything. And we have the power to make changes in our life that create ripple effects into these areas we’re seeking help with.

Sinclair 16:35
I think the one of the things that plant medicine really does in a beautiful way is it helps release people from the prison of diagnosis. So so many people who are suffering, for whatever reason, have gone to a doctor and been told you have bipolar disorder, you have this thing, whatever, whatever illness, you have this disease, you have this, and you know, we’re hearing this from an expert from a doctor from a person that that we’re supposed to be trusting, and then you take on this weight of agreeing that okay, yes, this is what’s wrong with me. And so now, my life is different. Because I have this different feeling about myself, I have this different understanding, I’m depressed, I’m anxious, I have chronic anxiety, I have like, all of these different kinds of things. That now this is a story that you’re telling yourself? Well, I have I have, you know, I have clinical depression, I have clinical depression, I have clinical depression, when you’re constantly repeating that to yourself, I mean, like, well, this is why I feel this way, this is why, you know, it becomes this part of you, it becomes part of your identity. And if you believe that it’s not curable, or a treatable, other than through whatever they tell you through drugs, or, you know, whatever treatments they’re offering, it starts to feel like your life gets very narrow. And the possibilities for you get very small, because people are telling you, you can’t heal this, you can’t, you can’t be healed, you can’t be cured, this is a lifelong condition, you’re gonna have to be medicated for the rest of your life. And if you take that in, then you will have to be medicated, because you’re agreeing to that definition of it. And it’s really difficult because people are in pain, it’s like, if you are going to a psychiatrist, or in considering taking, you know, medication for your depression or your anxiety, you’re at a point with it, where it’s really getting too heavy, it’s too hard to manage. And that feels like you need relief. So it’s not it’s not like a surprise that we’re getting more and more of these diagnoses. There’s also more and more drugs. And if you watch TV for any period of time, you will see commercials for pharmaceutical drugs that are selling you a disease. They’re not selling your cure, or they’re selling you a disease. They’re telling you Oh, you have psoriasis? Well, you should take whatever the name of this like Magica or whatever thing and there and it will be like this will maybe give you toxic brain cancer or like it might make you have symptoms of Parkinson’s. There’s just like a list of all the side effects and they’re like, but you will have psoriasis anymore. And I you know, we we lived in Ecuador for some years and kind of were disconnected from this and coming back into the US and seeing these commercials astounded me I was just like, What is going on? Why are like why is this why a why is this okay? And B does this work? Like because it’s like Ask your doctor will give you a month of this for free, like get your treatment plan. And it just seems like now again, we’re being not only are we being sold all the stories about how we’re not good enough in the first place, but now we’re being sold, here’s the actual thing that you are, you’re sick with this, and here’s what it is and go get some medicine for it. And it’s just another way to sell to, like sell

John 20:25
us to bleed you dry. Any any of these treatment plans or like health modalities that require a dependence on them for the rest of your life are

not really treatment plans, right? It’s like, well, I was a personal trainer for a long time. And I thought, you know, if I’m a good personal trainer, after working with me for a while whoever has been working with me, should not need me anymore, they should understand why I pick the exercises, I pick how to do them correctly, how to like, check to see when there’s an error if they’re like feeling some pain or something’s difficult, how to choose like a replacement exercise, if they have an injury, whatever I want to be obsolete because I want this person to understand all of the the whys around it and how to properly execute it. And a good while a good healing modality should be the same thing, right is that if it’s really healing, if it’s really putting things into a proper and harmonious pattern of existence, then that pattern of existence should now be enough. And we shouldn’t need to keep leaning on that, well, I need this drug or I need this treatment or y’all I went to the chiropractor the other day. And this chiropractor for I sat with him for maybe 30 minutes. And for 20 of the minutes. It was not about what was going on with me or making adjustments, but it was about trying to sell me a monthly membership plan. And I was enraged. Like you and I it made me nervous because I was like is this guy who was clearly so concerned with me signing up for more of this? Is he going to give me the full treatment? Is he going to adjust things all the way? Or is he going to go halfway? So I’ll come back for more. Needless to say, I’m never going to see this clown ever. Yeah.

Sinclair 22:34
Okay, so we’ve told you like our feelings and understanding of how like, okay, shifting from healing, the Western idea of healing the western medicine, you know, concept. Again, we’re not against Western medicine, if you have a finger cut off, you need to go to the emergency room. But what we really want to talk about today is healing with psychedelics, and healing with entheogens is how we like to call them that because entheogens are sacred plant medicines used for spiritual healing for spiritual purpose in a spiritual context. And that’s the, that’s where we live. And that’s where we do our work. And what healing was psychedelics really means is sitting with these plants, having a mystical experience, connecting with your soul, revealing your soul and taking that experience and putting it into your everyday life. Bringing the mystical into the every day. And that is where the true healing with psychedelics work. So

John 23:32
putting, yeah, you I mean, you hit the nail. When we get to experience our soul, our light our divinity within, and then we do the work to make that realization, our practical everyday pattern of harmonious living. There is no room for disease, there is no room for illness, there is no room for anything that’s going to fuck us up. We’re not going to create it, that’s for sure. So, yes. Really, connecting to the spirit is the, for us the key, it’s the solution to you got a problem? You got a question? That is the answer.

Sinclair 24:17
And it can look like people think of spirituality particularly, you know, people who have I can, I’m a recovering atheist. And I had a hard time thinking about myself as a spiritual person for a long time because I did not have any connection to religion. I didn’t have a connection to the ways that I was told that you could be spiritual I did not believe in you know, Christianity. I did not believe in the the systems that were institutions of what I saw is like oppression and particularly oppression of women. And I didn’t want to participate in that and so because of that, I had to kind of staked my claim of like, okay, well, there must be nothing because if this is what it is, then it doesn’t exist. But I always knew that there was something more because I knew that I had a soul, I knew I had a spirit, I knew that there was something greater than me. Every time I looked at the ocean and felt the power of a forest breathing and, you know, saw a wild animal or looked into the eyes of a baby, like there’s so many places where spirituality shows up. And it doesn’t have to look like what you think it’s or what you’ve been told, it can look like, what you think. And what it can look like, is self care. And connecting with nature and finding a community of people who support your choices and support your choices to heal with plants and support your choices to live a more aligned life that maybe doesn’t fit into the life that you have now, and make these big shifts in your life and surround yourself with people who are lifting you up to do that.

John 26:03
Well, we invite you to figure out what does your spirituality mean to you? What does your soul feel like? And then I can tell you from my experience, once I’ve, well, the times where I’ve really connected to that is enough to I know that that part of me is bigger than any any maladaptive pattern that I’ve picked up along the way that creates disease, it is it is harmony itself, and adjusting myself, my ego to that pattern of existence that my soul has, is a process for sure. But each time I make a step in that direction, I get a little closer, I turn the dial just a little bit into more alignment with my soul. My pattern of existence, whether it’s physical, emotional, mental, or spiritual, goes, a little bore easy, right, it goes away from dis ease into ease. And, for me, that’s the ticket.

Sinclair 27:13
So the truth about healing with psychedelics is sitting with plant medicines, for the purpose of healing, sitting with psychedelics, for the purpose of going deep in is just the first step that is giving you the ticket, you’re going through the portal and the portal is inward, and you will know what to do. But then you have to do it. It’s like you can get all the insights of the universe. But if you don’t take action in your life, to align your life with these insights and this mystical experience that you’ve had, what is the point, and that’s the work that we really are here to help people do is to take that take that awakening that you find with these medicines, and make it a healing activity of life, like a daily practice where your your symptoms are gone, because you’re changing, you’re transforming, and you’re everything, all the alarm bells that have been going off in your life are quieting down because you turned off the alarm.

John 28:23
Those alarm bells are like trying to Hey, pay attention to the spirit and I’m like, please look at me. And when we look and acknowledge and pay attention and feed that part of ourselves. It’s like, okay, they’re awake, turn off the alarm. Right?

Sinclair 28:40
Yeah. So if you want to get your alarm turned off, give us a call get in touch with us. We’re mystical heart collective and we are here to help you take your spiritual experience and live it in your regular life. I hope thanks for joining us today and we’ll see you next time.

John 29:01
Have a good day.

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